Understanding CMI guitars and amps

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

The second one is a brown sunburst which a friend found at an auction five years ago , it has the squarer logo , which I have always taken to be an earlier model...
..there are many similarities which led me to this conclusion.......
..the headstock shape and the truss rod covers are identical...as are the tuners..
..the main body construction is the same , mainly solid with an arched plywood section glued to the front...
..the frets were heavily filed on both , need some shaping to restore a rounded top shape...
...both have 'made in japan' stamped in identical manner on the neck plate...

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

...also both have a 500k linear pot for volumes.....and 500k logarithmic for the tone controls...however on the older? (brown) one the controls were wired in r/h fashion , ie increasing clockwise , as this is opposite to all my other guitars I changed the pots and the wiring generally , to work in l/h fashion , added copper screening tape and star earthing . Now it is a nice quiet guitar with no hum .....
...the newer?(red) one had controls working in the l/h fashion , but with a log control for the tones instead of an anti-log as it should have been ...they act like a switch , and go instantly from bass to treble with no graduation ........they had to go and I recently rewired this guitar also in the same manner , copper tape etc. so now both guitars function in the same manner . The older?(brown) one has a slightly cleaner tone from the pickups , whereas the newer?(red) one has a more muddy sound..

1bassleft · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject:

That's interesting, Robin. 1980 would be among the last of the CMI guitars. A curly logo, you say? I thought they were early versions (many of the English cMi appear to be less convincing Japanese copies) whereas the CMI with the long C wrapped over the blockprint MI strikes me as later (1975 onwards).

I'm a lefty myself, and would be very grateful if you could put pics of your LPs up on this thread.

On another note, I've only just found out that Standel amplifiers in El Monte, CA, have a long history going back much further than their brief ownership by CMI (Chicago, not Cleartone) in 1973-4. Their's more to them than the SG Systems hybrids suggest, and they have started remaking their 50s models. Have a look at their website:
http://www.standelamps.com/about_us/story/story_p09.html

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

here are the pics as requested , ignore the compensated nuts , I fitted those.....

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

1bassleft · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject:

, Robin. This has thrown me a bit. A few apols; one is that I didn't notice your previous two text posts when I placed mine (a new page can do that to me sometimes). Secondly, and this apol is to anybody looking in on this thread, for all the dead links to pics in my posts. I know that eBay removes pics after a while, so I would cart them across to Sony's Imagestation for a permanent home. Not so permanent; Imagestation has got out of hosting, taking my pics with it.

The reason why I took curly cMi to be early Cleartone is that so many of them tended to be pretty low-budget Japanese guitars. True, I've seen good cMi guitars like yours, but I took them to be better-sourced and a transition to the CMI block logo. A girl at my school has a "cMi" bass and it is identical to my "Yamato" (apart from colour). Dodgy body wood, two-saddle bridge, nasty knobs and tuners and a Telecaster-sized, metal covered pup instead of anything resembling a bass pickup. Typical of early 70s Japanese budget makes.

Also, while every cMi had a "Made in Japan" neckplate, CMIs tended to have a blank plate; yours is the first I think I've seen. Quite recently, I saw genuine setneck LP copies and these had the CMI logo. Hmmm, you've certainly turned my head upside down, Robin. Thanks for all the trouble you've taken with pics etc. I thought this thread was dying down but it looks like I need to do a lot more webhunting now Smile

Incidentally, a twin-neck 6/12 SG copy, with the CMI block logo and bolt-on necks, has just come onto eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110231920373&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

Hi ..........................please ignore this entry , it was my first attempt to update the forum and it was blocked for some reason.........................
...only to pop up again later.........it is really a duplicate of my longer entry..............................................
.. I just stumbled across the threads for CMI guitars.........I have two in my collection , both LP copies left handed . One has the curly logo with
star , its a red sunburst which I bought new around 1980 from a shop I think was called Abercorn music near Woking..?????....never managed to
find them again. Saw an ad. in Exchange & Mart for left handed guitars .
I had a choice of two , the sunburst or a black one . Paid around £150 I think but I did a part exchange with a l/h Grimshaw .
The second one is a dark brown sunburst which a friend found at a car boot sale five years ago . This one has the squarer logo and I always
thought that this was simply an earlier production model . Both have the same headstock profile and tuners . Both have the 'made in Japan' on the neck plate . Both also have heavily filed frets , which needed quite a lot of shaping with fret files etc. to restore a rounded top shape .
There are differences however , the older? brown one has r/h pots wired the same as for a r/h guitar , hence the pots turn clockwise to increase
volume or treble , drives me nuts as it is back to front . I eventually changed the pots and screened with copper tape etc. star earthing too..its a quiet guitar now ..no hum..
The newer? red one has r/h pots wired as for a l/h guitar , so the volume and treble increase in the correct sense ,but always seemed too coarse , I only recently realised that the pots were wrong when I did some resistance measurements , I am in the process of rewiring this guitar now.
.......I was then stunned to find that my Epiphone LP also has the wrong pots fitted , again I was puzzled by the apparent coarse controls , which acted more like an on/off switch , and have now proved by measurement that it has the logarithmic pots for a r/h guitar , instead of the ANTI-LOG pots which should be fitted in a l/h guitar ....?????????????.....too bad its out of warranty or I could take it back I guess....?????....
I could quite believe that the two CMI came from the same factory as construction seems identical , the main part of the body is solid with a ply wood arched section glued to the front , the red one has more edge trim and gold plated parts , which adds to my theory that it was a later model..???

BADELVIS · Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 2

Just got hands on a left handed CMi Les Paul. It' a beauty! I am wondering if this could be connected with Antoria. Both were British makes (don't get me started on the modern Antoria label) and made at the same factory. I know Ibanez are also in the mix. I've also got an Antoria Rockstar from about the same time and the build quality seems similar.
Incidently, I also bought an Epiphone Les Paul Special II and I've already sold it on (it's a little project I've set myself). Not a chance of selling the CMi. I must say that these 70's British/Japanese babies have certainly got something.

1bassleft · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject:

Being a lefty myself, I kept an eye on that Les Paul:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380014106188&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:GB:1123

I'm guessing it has a bolt-on neck but, even so, you got it for a good price. It has the "extended C" logo that coincides with their amps that were made around '76-'77 (but possibly all the way to '79) and, as I've mentioned, I've seen curly, cMi logos with the star over the "i" on pretty low-budget Japanese models. I must take my camera into school to take a pic of the bass that one of my pupils has. However, if Robin's cMi was bought new in 1980, that has to be among the last of the brand. Marshall ditched all those other brands once the Rose-Morris exclusive deal ran out in 1979. Park was resurrected in the '90s for Korean-made combos, but CMI has remained dormant.

Or did you get the cMi, lefty Les Paul?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1970s-CMi-Les-Paul-copy-left-hand-electric-guitar_W0QQitemZ250228128556QQihZ015QQcategoryZ20987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a bolt-on "extended C" EB0 bass copy currently on Fleeb:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CMI-Gibson-copy-EB0-Short-Scale-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ380012153165QQihZ025QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a J200 copy acoustic like myfoot's:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1970s-CMI-J200-STYLE-JAPANESE-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR_W0QQitemZ160175781554QQihZ006QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

This would have had the "extended C" logo. The seller says CMI was the same as Antoria and Ibanez but we're talking Music Ground, who are not averse to saying anything to boost the price.

A 6-12 SG twin neck that failed to sell has the "extended C" logo:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110231920373&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

The interesting bit is that a twin-neck collector was sure that these were made by Nippon Gakki and could date the CMI to 1975 from the serial numbers on the necks. I'll try to contact the seller and informer for more info.

1bassleft · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject:

The J200 copy like myfoot's was taken off fleeb - probably for a "Gibson" reference. I think it's back, cleverly featuring "Gibson strings" in the title:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190231905983&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

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